fail.

I was going to write something interesting, but there’s little point if the contest is random. Halo Wars is fun; console RTS can succeed.

Personally I see no reason why RTS games can’t be sucessful on consoles and there are already a handful of good examples. However it would probably require a change in the mindset of the console gamers themselves before they truley are considered sucessful.

Now while RTS games have no chance of reaching the level of complexity that PC gaming permits, they could still be popular and great.
The main issue is the control scheme. Obviously on a PC the keyboard allows for far more hotkeys and ease of access to many different units and formations and such. The controller on the other hand is limited to but a few hotkeys and really does not work with a complex RTS like starcraft.
Now on the other hand I believe Halo Wars to be a success as it povides a high adrenaline (yet very simple) RTS.

In summary I believe that simple action heavy RTS game stand a chance at popularity but as long as controllers as the imput method of choice on console complexity will always be lacking.

And yes, are console gamers really that into RTS games?

To me it seems a mixed bag, really.

Halo Wars did a good job of simplifying the control scheme to an Xbox Controller, and it had a good differentiation and balance of units. The environments looked good, and the interface stayed true to its roots. BUT it did things that RTS fans would find bad. For instance the screen position means of selecting units create a situation where micro-management was impossible at best. Resource gathering presented no risk, and the limitations of the base structure ruined the expansion ability that games like Starcraft and C&C have. There were also certain special abilities of units that ruined balance in some areas, and there were parts of the campaign that were absolutely frustrating at best. The game proved to be a very good proof of concept, but not much more than that.

But there is reason for hope. Balance and depth of forces is an important factor in the success of an RTS, but this is dependent upon the designers and writers of the game. If nothing else it seems that controls alone are the biggest barrier to acceptance of the genre, and with the popularity of the Wii, we’ve seen the introduction of a controller that gives the ability for precise movements. An RTS implementation on the Wii could retain the ability to effectively micromanage and have expansive bases. Furthermore, manipulation of the Xbox controller scheme presented in Halo Wars could also give rise to a more acceptable control scheme.

I myself am optimistic, and glad that Halo Wars was playable at its very core. But alas, I was unable to buy it and was forced to play it with a friend.

It’s Halo, there is going to be a bunch of halo fans (including me) giving it a shot. I just don’t think it will stick though, keep the RTS for the PCs.

RTS are mostly fails, but Halo Wars may be a small exception because its simple. Its Halo!

i think it will do good it is strong and never ending genre

Most console RTS games are full of fail. But Halo Wars but was built for the 360, so it is not full of fail. In addition, it is Halo. How could Halo fail? It has a great story line, great charcters, and has the gaming community’s attention. The controls are simply, the graphics great, and the gameplay is fun. So, let us review. Most RTS console games equal fail. Halo wars equal good.

who knows but as far as i’m concerned RTS’s will some day match that of pc RTS’s

They will not be made of fail when console controller come standard with 50+ buttons… Steel Battalion style maybe…

After renting Halo Wars I am certainly going to buy it. The Campaign (what I have played of it) is stunning and the CG movies are INSANELY detailed. I love the fact that I can 3v3 against random people and work as a team to but out my SCARABS OF DEATH. LOL

Gt = AKxIkillbambis

Hit me up for some pwning!

I think Halo Wars was a big step in the right direction, but still fell a bit short. Give it a few more years and I imagine someone will come up with a formula that works well on the console. Now, will I care when that happens? Probably not.

No, console strategies will not be Fail forever, as long as they are created with the same enthousiasm, commitment and love as Ensemble Studios did with Halo Wars.Some cheap remakes of PC-strategies will never be equal to the original ones. Halo Wars was exclusively created for the Xbox 360, so the production team could fully concentrate on the controls and making them work right. Do I think console strategies will ever reach the same level as on PC? No, at least not with the current consoles. Who knows, maybe we’ll see a full Total War game on the consoles some day… ;)

Of course not. They just need developers who design games suited to the platform. For instance, for years FPS fans played their games on the PC, with dozens of hotkeys and an armory of weapons tied to the numpad. But with Halo, Bungie had to rethink this concept, distilling combat to a few basic actions and limiting players to two weapons at a time. This may have felt limiting to some, but it was also incredibly effective and inspired a new class of high-quality console FPS’s. RTS’s are the same way, and Halo Wars might just be the title to jumpstart a revolution in quality in the genre.

I think console RTS games have promise.
I hardly play them, as the last one I played (and I still own it) was LOTR: Battle for middle earth 2

Halo Wars has nice gameplay that is easy to master, and good looking cinematics, as well as a familiar story.

That might help its success, but there will always be those we will spit upon the genre.
But the reason that I think the RTS genre has promise on the console front, is because I’ve seen plenty of console boys say “Hey! I bought Halo Wars and its great!” or “Dude, did you play [inset RTS game here]“

Oh I don’t know can a console connect a keyboard and still be a console and not a PC if the answer is yes then it can be not suck. Otherwise not entirely possible to micro enough on a controller. One must be pro at all games but in order to be pro at console RTSs they have to not suck.

As it is now, console RTS games can be good in their own right. Halo Wars does this on it’s own. There has yet to be a console RTS that gives you a level of control comparable to a PC RTS, though. Halo Wars does not give you an acceptable level of control to suit this purpose. To bring a console RTS up to PC standard, units should respond immediately and control groups should be available. Halo Wars does neither of these, and it would also benefit from allowing units to hold position instead of be kited away.

Console RTS will always struggle against its PC counterpart. But Halo Wars did help in putting a good name in the ever failing battle. RTS is all about quickness, and speed, and that’s just not that attainable on a console with a joystick. There is too much precision in a mouse that a joystick can’t do, and free range of motion. BFME II did a great job in handling the controls as well, but Halo Wars did the right thing in narrowing down the scale of the battles, thus letting you be able to control your units more easily. Will, console RTS games ever be not fail? Probably not.

I think the Halo Wars got the actual gameplay of an RTS down pat on a console. But it lacked the uber customization that we’re used to on a computer. Sure, it may play well, but its going to get stale if we, the users, can’t tweak it. Just add in a map editor, and the ability to create our own leaders (in a balanced fashion, of course, and maybe have unlockable leader abilities like you have in any class based game) alongside the good RTS execution that Halo Wars Has and I think a Console RTS will finally not be made of fail.

Even based solely on playing the Halo Wars demo, I would argue that it is already a console RTS which does not fail.

For me the biggest turn-off for Halo Wars was the fact that resource gathering was as simple as building a “depot”. Maybe I’m too much of an “old-skool” RTS fan but I always thought the idea of fighting for control of resources were what made the game interesting. Like Dune 2 for example. If your spice harvester got eaten by a Sandworm you were pretty much boned unless you could build another one and get back out there to bring in those resources/credits.

I just don’t think it should be as easy as selecting a building spot, and magically money starts rolling in. Hell, you could make it as challenging as Myth and people would still have played it because it’s “Halo”.

As for the whole “RTS on a console”. It can be done. Whether or not you enjoy them as much as the PC counterparts is always going to be personal opinion. There is a lot of good stuff in Halo Wars, and it’s too bad it seems that Ensemble won’t be able to build and improve upon the franchise.

~B.B.

I tried the demo and found it to be lacking all the essentials of a good rts game.
halo as a whole has always been a fps and the route of an rts takes away from the game as it should continue to be developed.

Console RTS games can be ‘made not to fail’, but I don’t think they will ever truly compare to their brethren on the PC. Unfortunately given the limits of the controllers currently used by consoles there just isn’t as much room for shortcut keys and complex commands. S

o I think that for a console RPG to not fail it needs to take a different route than those that have come before. Halo Wars, from what I played in the demo, takes this route a little bit in that it simplifies some of the aspects of RTS games and makes things easier to handle. Things like set army sizes and the shortcut to unit types on the bottom of the screen make controlling your army, or even parts of it, easier than on any other console RTS I have played before.

So I think there is a way for an RTS to work on a console but it will never truly satisfy the hardcore PC RTS fans.

Previous comments (like RetroGamer) say that it requires a change in mindset by console gamers to accept an RTS as successful. IMO, it’s more the RTS gamer that needs to change their mindset. Baww, you can’t use your mouse and keyboard. There’s something to be said for having ALL your controls available without having to move your hands (going from the left stick to the D-pad is a LOT easier than going from, say, “A” to “9″).

As long as the creators get the controls right in addition to enjoyable game-play, I don’t see why they couldn’t be successful.

O Hai!
Halo Wars was cool but RTS should stick to computers. :)

Halo Wars does it pretty well. :D

I know :D

It seems simple: Add a keyboard and mouse. Problem solved.

I’m going to say it straight up, console RTS’ have ALWAYS sucked. In fact, I don’t know of a time when an RTS title has ever been on my wish list. When it comes to what makes a good video game, it is essential that it contain a vast majority of the following:
Die Hard, Love-able characters

Awesome Plot
Cool effects
Amazing Graphics
Glorious Design
And a Well Developed Controller Scheme

Most people want to play a game that really engulfs them into the storyline. But its really hard to make a good story without focusing on the development of one single player. RTS games, while they do usually have one main character, they do not focus only on the development of that characters traits and personality. Usually, it is about progressing the story through a series of battles. This is where a game like Halo Wars comes in.

Halo Wars was lucky enough to already have a well developed story, something most RTS’ don’t have. This enabled them to focus on more of the strategy and design. People playing it was already familiar with a lot of the characters and vehicles, and had already experience them in first person VIA the Halo series itself. Because of this, Halo Wars managed to create an interesting RTS game by delivering an easy to use control scheme, a well based story, and a character you could love (Forge).

Thanks to Halo Wars, I feel that Console RTS’ games will now have the basic idea of how to do it right. So I think we can expect some more decent console RTS games in the near future.

NES, Sega Genisis, Dreamcast, Playstation 1&2, X-Box+the 360, ive never played a RTS. Why? Never wanted to and dont think i ever will. Hate to jump to conclusions but they seem like they would be long, boring, too technical and really not that fun to play. Love Halo but not that interested in halo wars or any other RTS games with big names attaced to them ( a grand theft auto RTS… dont think so).
Cant sit still untill O.D.S.T comes out, but the mythic maps should be a great fix untill then.

No, they won’t ever be. Consoles don’t really have the resources to display as many units as their PC counterparts at a given time, not can console pads mimic the superior control of a mouse.

If enough of the PC RTS gamers get used to using a controller instead of a keyboard and the demand for console RTS games increase, then they’ll have to eventually stop being made of fail.

If console games ever require a keyboard and a mouse, then there’s no reason why they’d be any different from a desktop-based one. The chances of that happening are slim, though - so the real limitation is lack of a fluid pointing device and not enough buttons to support all of the actions a decent RTS needs, plus presets and whatnot (without being confusing or requiring triple-jointed fingers or something) - the only real hope I see is for the next generation of interface with computers (virtual reality, gesture-driven interfaces [Surface and iPod Touch interfaces are a start, but this would require something more along the lines of interfaces seen in futuristic movies like Minority Report] The Wii is getting close, as well) - until technology along those lines is commonplace enough to be accurate enough for gaming, and cheap enough to be viable for the gaming business, I don’t think we’ll see a console RTS that lives up to the genre’s potential.

Halo wars is a pretty sweet game so far, on mission 7…but it is still an RTS on the console. It has sweet graphics and I think the controls reached their limited potential but this game would be so much better with the flexibility and the controllability of a mouse and keyboard.

I like Halo Wars, but I think that maybe it should’ve been on the pc as too few buttons on a xbox controller unless we can use a keyboard or the like to play instead?

fail

Most RTS’s were built for the computer and then ported to the 360, and everyone knows the ports never go over well (They still haven’t figured out the network coding for Halo CE, and overall I think games for windows isn’t working out either) But the fact that Halo Wars was built for the console definitely lead to some break throughs in controlling units and gameplay, but the facts are that everyone from Ensemble got canned and that the only people who kept their jobs (for a while) were the people working on Halo Wars had to have some effect on production and the outcome of the game. So yes I do believe that eventually there will be decent RTS’s for the console, but it will take some work, and a lot more research involved to live up to its computer predecessors.

Gamestop sold my copy of the LE Halo Wars, so I’m boycotting them now.
I really do want the code though…

People used to say that first-person shooters couldn’t work on consoles, but the original Halo disproved that.

I would say that the PC versions of Halo are easier to control than those on the Xbox, but that doesn’t prevent the Xbox versions from being great. I feel that the same can be applied to RTS games; you can still make a great game without a mouse and keyboard, even if it would be better with those
“luxuries.”

RTS games have been around for a very long time and although they have recently been bad. I think they need to think of new ideas that do not follow something along a series like Halo. They need something truely original, they really need to step up the design otherwise I think we will have some more bad RTS games on the way.

console RTS are fun just look at End war command your team by just saying 3 words “search and destroy” so yeah my opinion is: cosole RTS still has a chance i personnaly think that Halo wars and End war are great RTSs.

rts games will not suck when either halo wars 7 comes out or a hologram console comes out.

Hm, haven’t played it.
Alot of people I know, swear by it. I Personally think that RTS can work, but people should give it a chance.

Short of it: Yes. it can.

not really HWs was pretty decent and command and conquer 3 on the xbox 360 was good as well so….. not all RTS games “fail”

Personally, I believe that the only reason why RTS games won’t hit it off on a console is because the console market is designed for gamers with small attention spans. Most games, and I mean MOST games use loud music, short levels, extreme lighting and unlockables to keep their costumers interested. Games where you have to wait patiently or you move or interact slowly often cause console gamers to lose interest. That is why I perceive that the RTS franchise will never make its mark as the audience is lending itself to the death off these games.

I don’t think a console RTS will ever be able to get as good as a PC RTS. There are just some things that are only limited to a keyboard. For example, Marcoing, something that seems extremely difficult on a Console. The Keyboard/Mouse ultimately surpasses the joystick in macroing. Hot keys for instance are great. Too bad you can’t have it on the controller. None the less, your APM will be dramatically lowered. When you are playing on console, you can’t efficiently move multiple units around the whole map. It’s just too hard to do with just a joystick. RTSs require many buttons for hot keys as well as microing/macroing. The controller just doesn’t suffice. I’m mainly referring to Halo Wars and Starcraft for this because these are the most well known RTSs for console and PC respectively. If anything, Console RTSs should start by giving more liberty to the users and allowing for better map control. Utilizing more buttons will only benefit console RTSs in the end. It’ll take a while to develop it well but in due time I think we’ll get there.

Creating a RTS with limited controls (such as on a console) is like limiting an Army General to a few simple orders.

When controlling multiple units, building bases, and managing resources you need more than just a few buttons. So until consoles start using mice and keyboards, any RTS is going to be mainly fail.

That being said, Halo Wars comes pretty damn close to overcoming the control barrier.

Even with the limitations of control mentioned in this discussion, a console RTS could still enhance the depth of its gameplay in other areas to become less fail. For example, a simple command/control scheme doesn’t mean devs couldn’t create a more complex way for the environment to be important in the playspace. Consider terrain in which elevation/topography and amount of cover/concealment, as well as varying weather and illumination (at least a simple day /night cycle) would influence the way units could/should move and fight. All of this would add layers of strategy and decision making to the gameplay, but would not need more than the Halo Wars control scheme.

fail

There are around 104 buttons on a keyboard, not to mention a mouse; making it very easy to have everything at your finger tips, fulfilling the PC’s gamer of being a god. On the other hand, consoles have 12 buttons and two joy sticks, scaling down on the effectiveness of having that power. But this is not the reason why RTS’s lack the capability of succeeding on consoles. Halo Wars made a pretty nice control scheme to keep the game pace, fast and easy, but with the simplicity you lose the whole purpose of an RTS, which is to be like a god, to have all power and control over your dominion. In the end there’s not that much of a desire for the industry to make RTS’s on consoles because of the limitations consoles have as opposed to PC’s where you can always upgrade and the developers just keep on making expansions and don’t need to build aroung different consoles, they make the gamer build around there specs and that works for them. In the end, both the gamer and developer gets what they want. So the answer is no, not this generation.

I’ll put it this way comparing Console RTS’s to Ghostbusters

Zuul: Are you a god?

Ray: no.

Zuul: Then die!

haters.

I dont think it Halo Wars was a fail, it was just extremely simple in comparison to the average PC RTS. ..which makes sense. the limitations on input controls are simply to much for a console to overcome. i mean, when there are 10 number keys, and multiple ogmentations (alt, ctrl, shift, combos of each) there are just waaay more ways to get the micromanagement done (not to mention the rest of the keyboard and mouse). to contrast, the controller has a, b, x, y, and some joysticks (and triggers and bumpers), but this is just not enough. even if voice control was a viable option (which it still isnt), it takes way more time to act vs. just pushing a few buttons.

maybe one day RTS for console will be as seamless as they are for PCs, but that will probably be when we are using mind reading devices for input.

Halo Wars is a good start, but i think console-based RTSs need more controls than are not available to the standard controller.

Halo Wars is a type of game that is normally only scene on a pc. Unless Xbox wants to throw in a mouse and a keyboard then RTS games do not seem like the answer for a new gaming genre for the 360. It does have potential especially because of how brilliant the graphics are. It also could be fun to play huge long games with friends who all have the game. But without all of the hot keys you normally have with a keyboard, the 360 controller doesnt do an RTS justice. Though overall it is a good game, it just lacks the same consistancy that other RTS games have on the computer. It would be better for Halo Wars to come out for the Pc.

Real-time strategy games on the PC perform faster, where as on the console, have better graphics.
RST games (like fishing), require patience which many young players lack, thus drawing the more attention from older crowds.
The 360 targets younger players with games that move quickly in and out of action as to prevent boredom.
(and has long cut scenes). RTS games were designed for the PC. The mouse is designed to make use of the many single-handed movements and allows quick hand/eye coordination. The two-handed console controller just requires too much motor brain activity to multi-task as fast as with the mouse.
Due to the fewer number of buttons on the console controller, the controls for a RTS game become more intricate for the same commands done easily with the mouse. The controls need to be memorized like a button combo in a fighting genre.
I have played C&C and Age of Empires on the PC and after recently playing Halo Wars (same company) I noticed slower navigation than with the mouse, fewer capabilities (limited build areas, unit control).
So unless the xbox is combatiable with a mouse and keyboard and RTS games are designed around those controls, RTS on the console will fail.

I believe that console RTS will eventually make the leap: and become a viable genre in it’s own right.

It’s hard to come to a conclusion whether or not console RTS-es will ever “not be made of fail” simply because of the question’s ambiguity. What makes an RTS bad? Is it the lack of a fluid control system, a lack of depth (for example, resource management) or something else entirely?

There are already a number of concerted attempts to make the genre “work” on console. Halo Wars is the most obvious example due to the nature of the IP involved, but there are also games like Stormrise, which hold a lot of promise. The single, most glaring problem with console-ported RTS is the control system. It’s always over-complicated and becomes a poor shadow of it’s PC counterpart.

Halo Wars, however has made that quantum leap. The system isn’t flawless and room for improvement is very much there. But the fundamental factor is that gamers can pop in a copy of Halo Wars and find that the controls feel very much natural. Selection of units can be precise (to a certain degree) and fast with good use of the system.

It would only get better from here. Which brings us to the second point: what about depth and balance? Taking Halo Wars as an example once more: it does not even hold up to the level of complexity a game like Starcraft affords. To be fair, almost all PC RTS games lack this as well, a good reason why to this day the Blizzard RTS-es are the only ones used widely in competitive play. But can you expect the first standard bearers of a new genre (as it could be called) to have all of, or exceed the merits of it’s older brethren?

I don’t think so. But to be as good as the PC RTS games, console RTS will have to present a different form of gameplay to gamers simply because of the control limitations. The heavy (Starcraft-esque) micromanagement of PC RTS simply does not work in this case. If there is anything resembling the nest leap for console RTS, it would be new forms of gameplay. The only medicine for the genre is innovation.

Which is what Halo Wars and Ensemble have done well. The first step is complete- all it takes now is refinement, refinement, refinement. Taking a line from one of the previous comments, nothing will prevent console RTS from taking off if it receives a good shove.

When determining whether RTS games on a console is fail you have to consider if the RTS game is being made specifically for consoles or is just being ported to a console off of a pc build. An RTS built from scratch for the console platform will surely contain less fail than one with pc built base with slight adjustments to make using a controller rather mouse and keyboard slightly more comfortable.

I agree with you CoreyG, ports of rts games from pc = fail on consoles, now rts designed for consoles like halo wars = awesome

RTS GAMES ARE SO FILLED WITH FAIL THAT THERE IS NO HOPE ON EARTH FOR THEM TO SUCCEED IN LIFE!!!

It all depends really. Most of the RTSs available for consoles are just ported PC RTSs with screwed up control systems. Halo Wars, on the other hand, was designed by the ground up for the 360. As a result, it is probably the best console-based RTS we can expect for a long while, although it still can use a bit of work.
Here are a few main reasons I think RTSs MAY succeed in the future.

User Interface– Most of the RTSs available for consoles were designed with the PC in mind. The controls were meant for PCs (Or Macs, I guess), which have the mouse and dozens of keys to control the game. An XBOX 360 controller has 17 button and two joysticks to replace that.

Scale/Complexity– Halo Wars is a gem in this department because it is set on a much smaller scale than most PC based RTSs. Because most console RTSs were designed for the PC and ported to the XBOX, you are required to the same number of units with the already poor control system.

So in conclusion, you may notice one phrase in common with all of my points:
“Because most console RTSs were designed for PCs”
It is true, if half of the console RTSs out now were actually designed for a console, like Halo Wars, the console may be able to compete with PCs. But Nooooo, RTS developers are too lazy to take a chance, to actually design an RTS from the ground up for the XBOX (or PS3, and possibly a low-end one for the Wii). Of course the late Ensemble Studios is excluded from this generalization.

I say just wait a little while to see if other developers are smart and follow in Ensembles Footsteps.

it always will

Blue Dragon Plus is good, i haven’t played Halo Wars yet, but it seems good. I don’t know any other RTSs :(